Sex And Couchsurfing
A recent discussion in a group on Couchsurfing went like this:
A guy: What’s lost in all this talk of “open intentions” is: girls do not usually get into situations saying “I’m looking to bang!” There needs to be… plausible deniability. And many guys prefer girls who wouldn’t say a thing like that.
A woman: men who are looking for sex do not prefer these women who want the exact same things as them, they want to “work” on a woman
A guy: Are you hearing yourself? A man.. wants to “work”?!?
We need to investigate further.
First, there is usually a correlation between how physically attractive a woman is and how difficult she is. This is not an innate characteristic. Just that if a woman is not attractive *and* she is difficult, she is ignored by men (and starts writing for Jezebel).
“Scarlett Johansson is eyeing me but I’d better go talk to Janeane Garafolo over there because she seems aloof and would require work”
…said, no man ever.
Also, there are other “tells” involved. Whatever level of commitment a man or a woman is looking for, their attraction systems are tuned for “looking for a mate”. That’s why women swoon for men who could save them from a rampaging mastadon, the last of which died 10,000 years ago.
Similarly, men prefer women who don’t go around saying “I want to shag” because fidelity is a bigger deal for men — we can never be sure we are the father but the woman is always sure she is the mother.
Of course you can override these systems using your prefrontal cortex but when the hindbrain has an opinion, prefrontal cortex usually strives to justify it and not to negate it.
Me: That’s a biological/DNA explanation, but I think it’s more complicated. I think what she is saying is that women enjoy sex just as much as men (contrary to popular myth) but they (especially the younger ones) are refusing to let themselves be shamed for it. And that’s social.
Nice that he can give himself credit for “taking her to heaven.” She takes herself to heaven! She has several times the nerve mass he has with nerves direct to the brain! Her sexuality is not as localized!
How many men have observed themselves acting out with total passion and abandon that some of their female partners have!!! Sheesh!
Anyway this issue of shaming has got to stop! In medieval times women were said to be hysterical by men. If women are holding back it’s the fear of being shamed.. Having him brag to his friends or calling them “easy” or “loose” or whatever else! She has got to feel free from shame. All this morals and standards shit is just a frontal lobe excuse to not let go when she doesn’t feel safe for whatever reason.
Shame is one of the most destructive things that we do to each other! Men make women into sluts and women make men into bloody savages and neither has to happen! I blame the grandmothers for carrying this bullshit into the future! Just like they carry war!
And not only do we have slut shaming but age shaming too! That’s why there is the rise in the numbers of cougars. Younger men are finding out what it can be like when women have finally claimed her sexual freedom. Both younger women and older women are reclaiming the power of their sexuality and owning it! It’s the most accessible and healthy method most of us have for experiencing transcendence unless we want to spend hours in meditation! And it’s the best thing that can happen to a marriage.
All that being said, it doesn’t mean that both women and men should go around having indiscriminate meaningless sex. Both sexes still maintain the right to choose for whatever reason. And whenever that right is not honored we do terrible damage to each other.
When women claim responsibility for their sexuality the power differential changes and they become more equal. Men lose their power to shame. Of course women can shame too but this isn’t taking responsibility.
Woman: Wow Zoe! What a brilliant post. Just, wow.
Truth is in real life, men often times turn away from the Scarlett’s of the world and go for plain Jane for whatever reason. When men are actually honest about their feelings and what they want, and aren’t as concerned with having the highest numbers of partners or keeping a trophy by their side, they actually make decisions based on their heart. I see it all the time. There’s a reason why many of these picture perfect women (and men) are often times just as lonely as the rest of us. A real partnership has to be based on honesty and something a lot more meaningful…and yes that requires work. However, work is not always equal and whether or not you’re working for something good or to feed your ego is something entirely different.
Women are always pinpointed as being in denial and playing games, but men play just as many games if not more cause they like the chase. That is why often when men find a woman “easy” they get bored fast and start looking for something different. Come on, this isn’t anything new I’m saying. This game is old and tiring.
Me: And “working for something good or to feed your ego…”
Isn’t that the truth! But sometimes hard to tell the difference probably when it’s a bit of both. Finding or just wanting something new is always lurking. Seems to be human nature. Guess that’s when you hope the frontal lobe overrides. Depends on how strong the feeling is. And whether it is related to identity. I’ve always thought that with men especially, the hunt for new sex can be a denial of mortality. It’s when they feel most alive. Not my business though. It’s their’s.
I didn’t allow shaming in my house…and my 3 boys didn’t hear it from me or their father. Told them I’d kill them if I heard them doing it. I’ve never heard them do it as adults. But of course that doesn’t mean they don’t. I think the example came from their father who hated it. I’ve always suspected he was shamed when he was very young.
And I certainly was in high school and college by guys who, because I was striking and had the figure to go with it, made very wrong assumptions about me. Guess that’s why I am focusing on female shaming.
I did hear it a lot from female co-workers among themselves. I guess I have to ask if women shame men to their faces? Because I have rarely heard it. It would break my heart to think my sons got shamed by girls…knowing how fragile guys are inside no matter how much they let on that they are not.
Guy: I’ve not commented previously because most of you write some very interesting things to read, not that I don’t. Regardless, I’ve enjoyed following this conversation. I’d like to address several things.
Zoe brought up some very interesting things regarding the use of shaming in order to control the behavior of others especially when it comes to sexual behavior. We really do need to end this cycle.
One guy talks about making love. I really think that’s a naive way to look at sex. Most of the time having sex has nothing to do with love.
Honestly, do you really think men enjoy the hunt? If some do isn’t that some kind of power game? What meaning does sex have to have to be enjoyable, acceptable? I get the boring part. Isn’t that why we look for other partners?
The world is so twisted when it comes to sex. It’s normal to want it. It’s normal to enjoy it. It’s normal to want more. Where did it get all messed up and how do we fix it?
Is Couchsurfing used to get laid? Undoubtedly, those who were always good at getting laid would take advantage. When those who hardly ever get laid would be great, amiable, platonic hosts. Damn. Back to them that gets and them that don’t.
Clearly, if you make your intentions clear that if there’s a mutual attraction it’s okay to pursue. If not then hands off.
Same guy: Thanks for bringing up this subject. I really think the world needs to talk more about sex and why it’s so hung up about it. Do other cultures have a similar view?
Bravo. Not that I agree but it comes across earnest.
Where did it get all messed up and how do we fix it?
I really think the world needs to talk more about sex and why it’s so hung up about it
Guy: Maybe it is this one thing that we do need to be a little hung up about.
Not the way the Wahabbi are, surely. But enough that it is exciting, naughty, risque. Because when we don’t have that, we look for really unhealthy things (ever seen extreme porn?)
So it is an equation without a balance. We want to be more comfortable with it but that robs from its mystique and attraction somewhat.
We will get closer to it and we will know the attitudes that are clearly wrong… but we will never quite reach it. What a wonderful thing.
Me: I don’t think he is trying to say to take the mystery out of sex. Yes there is the enticement of the forbidden fruit. By hang-ups I interpret him to mean to take the moralism out of it so that the mystery is enjoyable.
I’ll be frank. I have been going to Thailand and all SE Asia for 15 years. My son is married to a Thai and my spouse (not divorced) lives there. And I have many friends there…many of them western males. I’ve learned a lot from them. And the Thai women.
What we are talking about here are very poor countries (like Cuba) with no options for poor girls from the countryside. And yes western males pay for sex there. In their minds and in the minds of the Thais it’s a fair trade-off even though they too wish it weren’t so. Better than 20 year old backpackers taking advantage and “getting it for free.” I won’t go any further with this because it would turn into a book. My only caveat is I hate it when some of the girls (often bar girls) who profess to “Love you long time” and then take advantage of multiple love-lorn men who wouldn’t have a chance in their own countries with anyone near as lovely as those girls.
Long story short I am fiercely defensive of those girls. And by extension even the prostitutes there and anywhere else. Anyone who thinks it’s just always slam bang thank you maam is mistaken. The rules are clear and nothing like the stuff that goes on in the article that another woman linked to. Those are women who own their sexuality! And why I am against slut-shaming them. And why I agree with the guy who refers to “hang-ups.
Guy: People look for sexual partners anywhere there are people gathering. Most of the people on Couchsurfing provide a service of providing a place to stay in exchange for conversation, company and camaraderie, the building of new friendships that last. There are those few who in my opinion could get laid anywhere they are in whatever situation they’re in. There are some in Couchsurfing. Is that so surprising?
I’m alone a lot because I choose to be. Am I lonely? I’ll admit to sometimes, yes. For the most part no. I’m not alone in my aloneness. Are people looking for sex or is it intimacy. I think it’s more the latter than the former.
We’re all of us sexual beings. If we chance upon a willing interesting partner why would you say no. Unless, you require some kind of relationship to legitimize your actions. By then your opportunity is long gone. The ship has sailed.
So, yes some people on Couchsurfing are looking for sex. Most are not. Some of them are lonely and some not just as most of them are mentally balanced. Hopefully, the ones who aren’t will reveal themselves before something goes wacky.
Another guy: “One thing that I’ve learnt in life is, you have to keep on dating, if you go through a long spell of singledom, you lose touch with reality, you don’t even know how to act when involved.”
Cool: When mature people do not get lucky and realise a younger person is more interested in people their own age!
Things can get ugly!”
You can say that again, met a deranged old bitch recently, her demands were way out of this world…she was outta touch with reality but then again she said she had not dated for 20 years…one angry woman.
The only thing that was cool about her was her age, so you can brag to your friends you banged an older broad than them. Point blank, period. Cougars need to play their part and not stress a younger buck that’s doing them a favour.
Guy: This is a remarkably perceptive albeit wise statement. The downside of it is while say a small percentage of people are able to date and date comfortably the large percentage of people that are the rest are not able, unable or unwilling to date comfortably. Then venture a guess at what the percentage is of those who are involved with Couchsurfing and can date and those who can’t, pretty similar I’d say. I consider your statement to be an ideal that most of the world would love to achieve but can’t for whatever reason. Hence, getting laid is difficult when you’re all thumbs and there’s a shoe in your mouth. Reality can be a sad thing.
Guy: “take the moralism out of it so that the mystery is enjoyable.”
Now that you phrase it that way 🙂 And really, the moralism has been taken out of it in my life and those around me. Yet it is still a vexing thing. Anything people feel strongly about, stays a vexing thing.
Tags: Couchsurfing, Health and Safety, Travel Tips
Zoe
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